Deer Bear Moose Wolves Fisher Mountain Lions. It's listed as population of least concern. Patrick Tate: It's wow interesting that you brought this up because I've had people report I saw cardamom. So what I'm getting back is the verifying and confirming of evidence what that was not there. Sam what's the incentive for the government to deny allegedly. Rick van de Poll: Well I didn't. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. Today, their range stretches from the Yukon Territory in Canada along the western coast of the United States, all the way to the Southern Andes in Chile. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. This is not the same as saying that there has never been a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire. But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. They don't know the direction they're going. You don't know what's going on. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. Patrick Tate: Well I've never seen an Easter cougar so I can't say when I've handled these 10 cougars and whatnot. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. Right. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. 235 or nhandy@ledgertranscript.com. So I think in that story there's there's something for the believers and the nonbelievers and I and you know Mark L. Brock is who is a gentleman with the cougar Network told me this story is evidence that that if they were here we would know about it. Okay. M from Tree Hill author series presenting Diane lay back. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. From involving members in projects as local as cleaning up an area park or as far-reaching as bringing sight to the world's blind, Lions clubs have always . Well I can't tell you what you saw. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. When they were landing or taking off and it seems like it's been there for like. "Of those three to five reports,. Well within there. No I saw a camel. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. They absolutely do. And maybe it's a no holds barred nostalgia for a better world a wild or Fuller world not a world that's constrained by our boundaries and our taxes and our highways. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. Thanks very much. So you want identifiable backgrounds. If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. The DNA the DNA that they were able to pull from the cat suggested that it was a dispersed mountain lion that came. Theyve always said when we have verifiable evidence to say a mountain lion has been, is, or was in the state that wed acknowledge that and give that information out, says Pat Tate, the furbearer biologist with New Hampshire Fish and Game, who insists theres no conspiracy. Caller: Oh yeah. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. And so. And we want to know your stories if you have them 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or email exchange at an HP bar dot org we'll talk about conspiracy theories when we come back. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Rick van de Poll: Well the mountain lion of course has been sort of an enigma in the wildlife suite for years and years. No that's a little bit outside the range. Thank you. Mountain lions (especially males) have incredibly large ranges that they defend from rivals. Well they are the same. Patrick Tate: Yes. NH Fish and Game relies on physical evidence to answer questions about the presence or absence of mountain lion in the state. m from a weed family Automotive on store Street in Concord is serving the Concord area families automotive needs since 1995. There'd be there'd be all sorts of you know basically a lot of hassle required if that were to happen. About Us Media Kit Calendar of Events Volunteer Visit Learn Events Membership Support Your Visit BUY TICKETS Know Before You Go Directions and Information Our Animals Live Animal Exhibit Trail Hours and Admission Calendar of Events Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. But you've done some reporting on this. Just. Rick van de Poll: Yes. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. Chartered: 1973 . You've got you've got biologists right who are trying to make their make their way in the world make a career if you are the biologists who confirmed a sighting of mountain lions in the state that would be very good for you like you would be all over the news. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible.. Rick van de Poll: 80 90. There's no attraction. Incredible sighting and I called him the fish and game and they immediately sent me to a website to look at all the bobcat pictures. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. Does not test random Scouts. But if you were to get Western dispersing mountain lions just would just sort of expanding into New Hampshire. Less than a year later I found a scat on the swamp range and I was working at the time with a fellow at the Michigan wildlife habitat Federation. Mountain lions live in the state. So we're fixated on natural but there's other possibilities. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. We had six copies printed out each. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. I have no doubt that there are mountain lion roaming New Hampshire. You can see two of them at Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness NH. Peter Biello: Today on the program Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist and far better project leader Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in which is about the natural world and how we use it. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. What's going on. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. Mountain Lions are a mythical creature in New Hampshire with strong feelings on both sides of the question: are there Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Sam Evans-Brown: You know the North America had a number of large predator species when humans first arrived in the continent. We are the second most-forested state in the country, and those forests can be impenetrable snarls (part of why the Northeast is notoriously a difficult place to hunt deer), and while there are people in a lot of those woods, because the cats have been absent for a few generations now, most of those people dont know what a cougar scrape or latrine look and smell like. I saw the tail end of a literally from behind the shoulder The Long Tail mountain lion crossing the highway going from Password to often Village downtown. Sam Evans-Brown: Certainly that is a thing I've heard but again you have to think of the incentives involved here. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. Verifiable pictures recorded by the observing person or a trail camera. I just don't understand the mechanism for how that would happen. John is calling from Bennington. There was no sign of it. There are corollaries in other states. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. I can't. Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. So so do what you can get to do what you can to get proof. They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. And the cougar embodies that. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. Peter Biello: Listeners give us a call if you have a question or a story of a sighting 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. Tate said that while a mountain lion sighting in New Hampshire isn't likely, it's not impossible. It's good to talk to you. Current conditions in New Hampshire would support a mountain lion, according to Tate, as forests have returned, allowing for prey species to become more prevalent. Give today. Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. One was in Shelton. Today on the exchange we discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. So I reached down to grab the camera and looked back and like a ghost it's gone. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. 50 feet above the most. And you know it's rather interesting because certainly there are those you as a case of mistaken identity or they wanted to see something that perhaps they actually didn't. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. They kill big animals. What kind of animal is that. It traveled all the way from from you know Minnesota to New York without being so seen Patrick take. Patrick Tate: In theory it's a passing ball of a court and it goes wherever the bottom Ball wants to go. Rick van de Poll: Well education is the real important thrust of of what all of us do as biologists and Game Managers and to make sure that a things like what Sam was saying that in spite of what you believe the mountain lions will not eat your children they will not steal your pets from your backyard and they will not necessarily be seen by you unless you're extremely lucky. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HP yard today we're talking about the mysterious elusive majestic Mystic Mountain Lion. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. And in fact in 2011 when it was announced that the eastern cougar was officially extinct the reason that announcement was made is because they said really that it never existed. And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. I don't know if she still is. So what those ranges. How far were you from this cat. Rick shaking his head so Rick now correct me please. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. WMUR uLocal: On this trail cam video, an unidentified feline is spotted. Sunny today high temperatures low to mid 80s it'll be clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s for tomorrow sunshine with high temperatures mid to upper 80s. Lions Clubs Int'l Links: LionNet NH Links 2011 -2012 . Have it reported down in the Keene area. Can we go to the site. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. Seems reasonable! They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. First off if the standard for an agency to go forward with the public and put out a press release that them outlines here their believers are going to say I told you they'd been here the whole time. John. Mountain lions don't usually travel more than 100 miles from where they are born. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. Do cougars live in New England? Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. Give us a call if you have a question or comments or story about perhaps seeing a mountain lion here in New Hampshire. Peter Biello: Well yeah. Chartered 1973; Member of District 44-H; . Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. It's you know I recognized their report and. Hunting is legal, but closely regulated by the state. The nonbelievers are going to say Show us your evidence and show us prove this to us. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. Is that typically what was happening there. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Patrick Tate: It became a very interesting investigation over time because it started becoming. John thanks. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. So the whole media hype about how scary mountain lions are should should go away immediately and that would be that I think the major thrust of educating folks about these casualties vs.. Sam Evans-Brown: Sam go ahead. Caller: I do. Rick van de Poll: Absolutely. Not one picture of him online while the person meet with us. Peter Biello: From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Peter Biello in for Lark Knoy and this is the exchange. Ive received pictures of dogs at odd angles, says Tate. Caller: Are probably. Want to report a Mountain Lion sighting in New Hampshire? So this whole illegal pet trade black market pro trade thing does does exist in a situation like that can happen. So. You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. This is where things start breaking down when you so I get pictures with this great description and one of my favorite stories is a great description what the witness and then so I called the witness and wanted information from them and the person says What are you talking about. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! No evidence and other states where Mountain lights have turned up. And they asked me about the tail which I just did not remember that tail out of that whole experience. Is there a way we can learn more about these dispersing mountain lions that may travel through the Granite State and that I would ask you certainly part about whether or not a he's spending too much time chasing down these kind of false leads or B would rather be doing something else that is more informative to whether or not we actually have or can prove that we have dispersing mountain lions in the state. Part II. So what a neat experience. Sam Evans-Brown: Well this might be a good moment to talk about hoaxes. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all along the waykilled a beaver near the Quabbin Reservoir in Central Massachusetts, left behind prints and DNA at that site, and then was hit by a car in Connecticut. Sam Evans-Brown: And when we talk about subspecies this actually leads to to an interesting tangent which is that the field of biology recently has been sort of revolutionized by the use of DNA to determine what subspecies are. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. Mike you're on the air. The panther, Fells concolor, is a beast of many names, most frequently referred to in New Hampshire history as catamount, but sometimes known locally as "Indian Devil" or "Carcajou", under which . I actually been interviewed a couple of times by reporters and with all due respect for the media you know facts aren't always communicated correctly. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. Residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Fish and Wildlife Service decided all of the cougars, pumas, and mountain lions in the country are actually the same species, and that species hasnt had a breeding population anywhere near the Northeast for at least 70 years. I really really enjoyed listening to this program so thank you all very much. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. Give today. These young males are tracking looking for mates and if they don't find a mate they just keep moving and moving and moving. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence. We'll hear from her periodically through the show. Really appreciate it. Caller: Yeah. Erler is a senior naturalist at the Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness. So now what's going on. So so. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. Are there other powers that be worried that scary mountain lions will scare off people from camping in New Hampshire. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. They used to roam the entire continent, but have become extinct in most US states. Patrick Tate: Okay. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. I think that you probably are. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. Listeners give us a call if you'd like. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. Russ, from Sandwich (and Bedford) asks: In Sandwich New Hampshire, everybody has a story about seeing a mountain lion. Every other Friday on Morning Edition NHPRs Sam Evans-Brown tracks down answers to questions about the environment and outdoors for our listeners in a segment we call Ask Sam.. We're not in the woods. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. The 17-year-old Kiger mustang mare was born in Bend, Oregon, said Hodskins, who got her . Peter Biello: Mm hmm.
mountain lions in new hampshire
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mountain lions in new hampshire